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In many cases, the end of the year gives you time to step back and take stock of the last 12 months. This is when many of us take a hard look at what worked and what did not, complete performance reviews, and formulate plans for the coming year. For me, it is all of those things plus a time when I u...
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UserLinux *Will* Support KDE
UserLinux *Will* Support KDE

Here is his e-mail to the list in full:

Bruce Perens bruce at perens.com
Sat Jan 31 18:00:44 PST 2004


>It's easy and democratic, and the reasons to exclude any QT-based
>application in UserLinux are absolutely fair: it is NOT FREE SOFTWARE
>and doesn't fit the license requirements of the distribution.
>

No, let's please not propogate this confusion.

Qt is free software, and has been for a long time now. It's GPL-ed. It used to be non-free by the Debian guidelines several years ago, that has been taken care of to my satisfaction.

It doesn't fit our licensing policies, not because it's not free, but for the same reason MySQL doesn't - it's putting the GPL in a place where we would prefer to put the LGPL so that proprietary development can take place without a commercial license.

Troll Tech uses dual licensing as a revenue strategy. They have a right to do so, and they are entirely within the ethos of the free software community in doing so.

I already have a customer asking for Perens LLC to provide commercial support for KDE on the UserLinux platform. And we will do so, even though KDE is not the chosen GUI of the UserLinux project. This is an option for any UserLinux service provider.

Thanks

Bruce

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Reader Feedback: Page 1 of 1

I maybe wrong but I do belive QT isn't fee software as define by the FSF/GNU

cause to be "free" software

you must be able to use it for "any purpose"

this gets confusing, cause if you pay a fee you can use it for any purpose, and the GPL doesn't forbid charging fees.

so it's like a company can require you to pay a distrobutions before you can acquire the program,then it's licensed under GPL , then it's free software, you can't do what you want with it.

but if the program is GPL and the company says "you can't do this or this, with out paying us a fee" it's not free software, or at least not by FSF strict defenition

I think the submitter has misread the original post. It does not state that UserLinux will include KDE. Only that Bruce's company, Perens LLC, will provide commercial support for KDE.

> GPL in a place where we would prefer to put the LGPL
you who? Do you have a system of voting? If not why do
you not implement one first of all? (and make it public)
That issue (GPL vs LGPL) only slows down the linux spread & development. Before UL this issue could have been acceptable. When I read about companies asking for UL, and
your dropping KDE, I knew something wass wrong because the majority of those comp. ask for advanced & stable & COMPLETE & backed desktop/framework.
It's really difficult to buy this GPL vs LGPL issue.
IMO, you & Stallman & others are giving fire to your credits this way.

Bruce's decisions about UL and the exclusion of anything Qt has undergone numerous transformations. First, it was because Qt couldn't produce a 'cottage industry' of commercial support. When this was pointed out to be demonstrably false, Bruce retreated into the, 'but Qt isn't free' argument... knowingly choosing to obfuscate the old 'Free (libre) VS free (gratis) canard of the community. When Free Software developers called him on this reprehensible tactic, Bruce retreated into the, 'but we just can't possibly support everything' argument.

Now, Bruce is learning from real commercial companies that KDE/Qt support is mandatory and he's having to distance himself from the craving anti-Qt trolls on his own list. The sad thing? Bruce missed a valuable opportunity to really work with KDE developers and the broader community by choosing instead to cater to his own bias and that of his sympathetic community of anti-Qt trolls. Now, he has lost a lot of his credibility in the eyes of many.

We all should be painfully aware of the power of preloads vs. the weakness of non-preloads. All desktop systems should be have both GNOME and KDE preloaded and ready, as neither desktop has a lock on desirable applications, and both desktops have highly useful applications.


Your Feedback
Robby Robson wrote: I maybe wrong but I do belive QT isn't fee software as define by the FSF/GNU cause to be "free" software you must be able to use it for "any purpose" this gets confusing, cause if you pay a fee you can use it for any purpose, and the GPL doesn't forbid charging fees. so it's like a company can require you to pay a distrobutions before you can acquire the program,then it's licensed under GPL , then it's free software, you can't do what you want with it. but if the program is GPL and the company says "you can't do this or this, with out paying us a fee" it's not free software, or at least not by FSF strict defenition
Mat Dodgson wrote: I think the submitter has misread the original post. It does not state that UserLinux will include KDE. Only that Bruce's company, Perens LLC, will provide commercial support for KDE.
Voltaire wrote: > GPL in a place where we would prefer to put the LGPL you who? Do you have a system of voting? If not why do you not implement one first of all? (and make it public) That issue (GPL vs LGPL) only slows down the linux spread & development. Before UL this issue could have been acceptable. When I read about companies asking for UL, and your dropping KDE, I knew something wass wrong because the majority of those comp. ask for advanced & stable & COMPLETE & backed desktop/framework. It's really difficult to buy this GPL vs LGPL issue. IMO, you & Stallman & others are giving fire to your credits this way.
manyoso wrote: Bruce's decisions about UL and the exclusion of anything Qt has undergone numerous transformations. First, it was because Qt couldn't produce a 'cottage industry' of commercial support. When this was pointed out to be demonstrably false, Bruce retreated into the, 'but Qt isn't free' argument... knowingly choosing to obfuscate the old 'Free (libre) VS free (gratis) canard of the community. When Free Software developers called him on this reprehensible tactic, Bruce retreated into the, 'but we just can't possibly support everything' argument. Now, Bruce is learning from real commercial companies that KDE/Qt support is mandatory and he's having to distance himself from the craving anti-Qt trolls on his own list. The sad thing? Bruce missed a valuable opportunity to really work with KDE developers and the broader community by choosing instead to cater to his own bias and that of his sympa...
StormReaver wrote: We all should be painfully aware of the power of preloads vs. the weakness of non-preloads. All desktop systems should be have both GNOME and KDE preloaded and ready, as neither desktop has a lock on desirable applications, and both desktops have highly useful applications.
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